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Post by andym on Dec 19, 2023 11:22:54 GMT
Discussion on the RAF Commands Forum has cleared this one. There is an F1180 on file for LZ148 of 603 Sqn - Cat AC wheels up Gambut on 30/11/43. So it is the loss of H of 47 Sqn on 10/11/43 that needs identifying.
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Post by andym on Dec 19, 2023 11:26:27 GMT
Next up is LX929, shown as "to Middle East 6.8.43; no record of service; lost (no further details) 3.1.44. "Under Their Own Flag" records the loss of X of 47 Sqn on this date. It was shot down by Bf109s while on an eight-aircraft sweep around Crete. The crew of WO Roger BARRETT and Sgt Bill FAIRFIELD were killed. It is identified as LX919, which of course is not a valid serial. I think it is very likely that LX929 was the aircraft involved in this incident. The AM78 confirms its loss on this date.
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 19, 2023 14:44:41 GMT
Discussion on the RAF Commands Forum has cleared this one. There is an F1180 on file for LZ148 of 603 Sqn - Cat AC wheels up Gambut on 30/11/43. So it is the loss of H of 47 Sqn on 10/11/43 that needs identifying. So from where does the info that LZ148 was 'H' with 47 Sq come from? Since the AM 78 card is "useless" with regard to its loss, how do we know that the form F1180 is correct? Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 19, 2023 15:20:45 GMT
It comes from exactly where I said it did in the post: "Under Their Own Flag" records that on 10.11.43, "...Beaufighter LZ148/H ditched; the pilot, Flying Officer John Hayden, was killed, but the navigator, Sergeant J. McMaster, was rescued".
So we have: 10.11.43 47 Sqn aircraft lost (pilot commemorated on that date on Alamein Memorial) - recorded in the above book as LZ148/H 30.11.43 603 Sqn damaged on landing - for which we have a matching F1180 stating LZ148
We don't know that the form F1180 is correct, but at some point you have to trust something. We do however know from the 603 Sqn ORB that one aircraft was damaged on landing on 30.11.43 (no serial is listed).
We are looking for a second serial either way...
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 19, 2023 15:59:48 GMT
I should perhaps have made my point a bit clearer.
I understand Andy you took the info from the book, but what I ment was what is the origin of that?
Since the authors of MAW 5 doesn't seem to have read it (they lack other details given in the book)
and state the same thing, they may have had the same (unknown?) source.
Cheers
Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 20, 2023 11:15:26 GMT
A few extra 47 Sqn codes from"Under Their Own Flag": KW315 O KW394 B (Jan45) - this aircraft has no sqn listed in the book LX883 I NE411 D
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Post by andym on Dec 20, 2023 11:37:06 GMT
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 20, 2023 13:47:57 GMT
I take it you mean KW315? Cheers Stig
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 20, 2023 13:52:03 GMT
The entry for NE398 records its loss on 2 August 1944 following a mid-air collision with NE502 (which landed safely). Two crew are listed, but Cpl Best was a ground crew passenger. The pilot was F/O James Douglas MACKLEM RCAF (J/20592), who was killed. Any idea who Flt/Sgt Laing was, who is given as the pilot in the book? Did he perhaps belong to the crew of NE502? B Rgds Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 20, 2023 15:50:21 GMT
I take it you mean KW315? Cheers Stig Yes, good spot. I have corrected my original message.
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Post by andym on Dec 20, 2023 16:02:12 GMT
The entry for NE398 records its loss on 2 August 1944 following a mid-air collision with NE502 (which landed safely). Two crew are listed, but Cpl Best was a ground crew passenger. The pilot was F/O James Douglas MACKLEM RCAF (J/20592), who was killed. Any idea who Flt/Sgt Laing was, who is given as the pilot in the book? Did he perhaps belong to the crew of NE502? B Rgds Stig
"F/O J.D.MACKLEM, Pilot, was killed when Beaufighter NE398 crashed at China Bay, Ceylon, after colliding with NE502 in the air during exercise. Beaufighter NE502 made a satisfactory landing. F/Sgt LAING, Nav W. was slightly injured and CPL. BEST severely injured, both were occupants of aircraft NE398." So three people on board - two crew, plus a passenger.
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 20, 2023 16:09:22 GMT
Thanks Andy
Got it!!
Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 21, 2023 8:42:03 GMT
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