Comments and Corrections
Jan 2, 2020 15:51:30 GMT
Post by Paul Jackson on Jan 2, 2020 15:51:30 GMT
Percival Book: Comments & Corrections
Compiled by Paul Jackson.
Contents are in two main parts: (1) observations on the narrative and (2) additions and questions on the individual aircraft histories, arranged by type.
Part 1: Narrative
Page 9, Col 1
“Beryl Marcombe” is, surely, Beryl Markham (photo P19)
Page 20, Col 1, Second line of New Projects
“Q8/37” was the specification for the Percival T, as correctly mentioned in the next para (Q was the prefix for unmanned aircraft, so obviously not for a communications type.)
Page 39, Col 1
January 1965 government statement:
The description of missiles taking over from manned aircraft seems to refer more to the 1957 White Paper by Duncan Sandys.
Page 68, Col 1; and Page 185
The description of G-AFFD’s status is overly optimistic.
As of early 2012 the fuselage had NOT been re-covered — indeed, no restoration activity was evident, as ‘paying jobs’ of higher priority had caused activity to cease some time previously. The rudder had been refurbished and re-covered in fabric, but that is the total visible extent of restoration. The wing centre section was, at the time of publication, detached from the fuselage, contrary to the aircraft’s individual history (P185).
According to the owner, Red Ford, it does not have new wings; the original wings were damaged at the tips during its time at Redhill and were rebuilt to an incorrect shape before he acquired it. They will have to be restored to the original design before flight can take place.
By 2019, further progress had been made with joining wings to the fuselage, and painting.
Page 84, Oxford production
The NJ batch was NJ280-322, 345-382, 397-400.
Those not built were NJ401-443, 459-494, 510-558, 571-607 (total 250).
Page 90, Col 3
Says VS653 and 654 (with others) had Gipsy Queen Mk 71 engines. However, page 273 says these probably not built.
Page 100, Col 3, line 10
Space needed after 71
Page 113, Col 2
Design would be to Spec C.121. C.121P would be the agreed spec for production aircraft.
Page 125, Col 1
It may be useful to mention that L G Frise was Leslie George Frise (1897–1979), the inventor of the aileron which bears his name.
Page 130, Col 2
The brief mention of Rhodesia glosses over an interesting story of illegal arms shipments from the UK and use of the aircraft against opponents of the Smith regime there.
Page 133, Col 1
Leslie Frise designed the Provost (see above) but (long retired) Arthur Bage is credited with producing the Jet Provost initial design. This seems highly improbable.
Frise’s appointment (initially as Chief Engineer) to Percival was effective from 15 November 1948. Simultaneously (see Flight for 18 November 1948) A A Bage announced his resignation over disagreement on policy.
Page 137, Col 1
XN117. The Aden programme was VRET = Venom Replacement Evaluation Trials. No 85 Squadron was flying Meteor night fighters out of Church Fenton at the time, and No 8 Squadron was the unit based in Aden with Venoms.
Page 166, Col 2
Example of SBAC designations is incorrect. Companies were allocated their own letter, following which designs were numbered A1 to A9, then B1 to B9, etc. English Electric was ‘E’ but the B3/45 prototypes were designated EA1; the production Canberra B.2 was EA3.
Page 175, Caption 2
The picture is taken at Stapleford, not Shoreham
Page 260.
Prentice c/ns or fuselage numbers.
The book lists the painted-on sequential number and not the fuselage number (PAC/F/***). I have a different version of that list, largely from the observations of A J Jackson at Stansted and Southend. There are several minor differences in the first 100 aircraft, but the two lists generally conform after that.
Percival built at least 371 Prentice fuselages; this is established because PAC/F/371 (dated 3 March 1950) was used in the rebuild of VR189 when it was “returned to production standard” by Percival.
The following fuselage numbers are from personal observation by Paul Jackson:
PAC/F/65 G-APIY (VR249 PAC/075)
PAC/F/48 date 19.7.48 G-APJB (VR259 PAC/084 [but PAC/086 according to my version
of the master list]) However, seriously out of sequence; fuselage swap?
PAC/F/200 date 16.3.49 G-AOKL (VS610 PAC/208)
PAC/F/208 OO-OPO (VS613 PAC/215)
PAC/F/371 date 3.3.50 G-APPL (VR189 PAC/013)
According to information I have, contrary to assertions in the book, there was some (surface) interchange of Prentices between Southend and Stansted.
As correctly stated, the official civilianisation records give only the former serial. These have been ‘converted’ to c/ns by persons unknown — probably aviation enthusiasts. While most of this came from AJJ’s observations, we must be aware that such an exercise can result in false information becoming regarded as ‘gospel’.
The Blackburn ‘c/ns’ are a case in point. These are based on the Works Order numbers for batches of 25 aircraft, as was Blackburn’s wont; such numbers were used for civil production of the Bluebird, and by extension it was assumed that the system (the first built to WO5800 being 5800/1) must also apply to Prentices.
The Works Order numbers were, in fact, dug out of Blackburn’s records by me and passed on to AJJ for his book on the company. At no time did I suggest that were c/ns. It was a surprise to me that AJJ gave them as such, in spite of having made his own list of Blackburn fuselage numbers from actual observation:
B3/1A/PAC202 to 251 VS241-290
B3/1A/PAC252 to 270 VS316-334
? VS335-338
? VS352-362
plus six airframes?
B3/1A/PAC292 to 326 VS363-397
B3/1A/PAC327 to 332 VS409-414
Furthermore, while a contract number is given for Blackburn production, the Percivals are omitted:
VR189 et seq = Contract 5712
VR218 et seq = Contract 284
VS609 et seq = Contract 623
Page 282
Does not give the serials for cancelled Blackburn production: VS415-445, VS463-486. Of these, VS415-439 were to be covered by Works Order 5860; and VS440-445, 463-486 by WO5870.
Page 378, Abbreviations
ADW Armaments Disposal Wing
AHU Aircraft Holding Unit
A&AEE Aeroplane & Armament Experimental Establishment (during the [Hunting] Percival era; became Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment in 1992)
BDRT Battle Damage Repair Training
EFS Elementary Flying School
EFTS Elementary Flying Training School
RNAY Royal Naval Aircraft Yard
Compiled by Paul Jackson.
Contents are in two main parts: (1) observations on the narrative and (2) additions and questions on the individual aircraft histories, arranged by type.
Part 1: Narrative
Page 9, Col 1
“Beryl Marcombe” is, surely, Beryl Markham (photo P19)
Page 20, Col 1, Second line of New Projects
“Q8/37” was the specification for the Percival T, as correctly mentioned in the next para (Q was the prefix for unmanned aircraft, so obviously not for a communications type.)
Page 39, Col 1
January 1965 government statement:
The description of missiles taking over from manned aircraft seems to refer more to the 1957 White Paper by Duncan Sandys.
Page 68, Col 1; and Page 185
The description of G-AFFD’s status is overly optimistic.
As of early 2012 the fuselage had NOT been re-covered — indeed, no restoration activity was evident, as ‘paying jobs’ of higher priority had caused activity to cease some time previously. The rudder had been refurbished and re-covered in fabric, but that is the total visible extent of restoration. The wing centre section was, at the time of publication, detached from the fuselage, contrary to the aircraft’s individual history (P185).
According to the owner, Red Ford, it does not have new wings; the original wings were damaged at the tips during its time at Redhill and were rebuilt to an incorrect shape before he acquired it. They will have to be restored to the original design before flight can take place.
By 2019, further progress had been made with joining wings to the fuselage, and painting.
Page 84, Oxford production
The NJ batch was NJ280-322, 345-382, 397-400.
Those not built were NJ401-443, 459-494, 510-558, 571-607 (total 250).
Page 90, Col 3
Says VS653 and 654 (with others) had Gipsy Queen Mk 71 engines. However, page 273 says these probably not built.
Page 100, Col 3, line 10
Space needed after 71
Page 113, Col 2
Design would be to Spec C.121. C.121P would be the agreed spec for production aircraft.
Page 125, Col 1
It may be useful to mention that L G Frise was Leslie George Frise (1897–1979), the inventor of the aileron which bears his name.
Page 130, Col 2
The brief mention of Rhodesia glosses over an interesting story of illegal arms shipments from the UK and use of the aircraft against opponents of the Smith regime there.
Page 133, Col 1
Leslie Frise designed the Provost (see above) but (long retired) Arthur Bage is credited with producing the Jet Provost initial design. This seems highly improbable.
Frise’s appointment (initially as Chief Engineer) to Percival was effective from 15 November 1948. Simultaneously (see Flight for 18 November 1948) A A Bage announced his resignation over disagreement on policy.
Page 137, Col 1
XN117. The Aden programme was VRET = Venom Replacement Evaluation Trials. No 85 Squadron was flying Meteor night fighters out of Church Fenton at the time, and No 8 Squadron was the unit based in Aden with Venoms.
Page 166, Col 2
Example of SBAC designations is incorrect. Companies were allocated their own letter, following which designs were numbered A1 to A9, then B1 to B9, etc. English Electric was ‘E’ but the B3/45 prototypes were designated EA1; the production Canberra B.2 was EA3.
Page 175, Caption 2
The picture is taken at Stapleford, not Shoreham
Page 260.
Prentice c/ns or fuselage numbers.
The book lists the painted-on sequential number and not the fuselage number (PAC/F/***). I have a different version of that list, largely from the observations of A J Jackson at Stansted and Southend. There are several minor differences in the first 100 aircraft, but the two lists generally conform after that.
Percival built at least 371 Prentice fuselages; this is established because PAC/F/371 (dated 3 March 1950) was used in the rebuild of VR189 when it was “returned to production standard” by Percival.
The following fuselage numbers are from personal observation by Paul Jackson:
PAC/F/65 G-APIY (VR249 PAC/075)
PAC/F/48 date 19.7.48 G-APJB (VR259 PAC/084 [but PAC/086 according to my version
of the master list]) However, seriously out of sequence; fuselage swap?
PAC/F/200 date 16.3.49 G-AOKL (VS610 PAC/208)
PAC/F/208 OO-OPO (VS613 PAC/215)
PAC/F/371 date 3.3.50 G-APPL (VR189 PAC/013)
According to information I have, contrary to assertions in the book, there was some (surface) interchange of Prentices between Southend and Stansted.
As correctly stated, the official civilianisation records give only the former serial. These have been ‘converted’ to c/ns by persons unknown — probably aviation enthusiasts. While most of this came from AJJ’s observations, we must be aware that such an exercise can result in false information becoming regarded as ‘gospel’.
The Blackburn ‘c/ns’ are a case in point. These are based on the Works Order numbers for batches of 25 aircraft, as was Blackburn’s wont; such numbers were used for civil production of the Bluebird, and by extension it was assumed that the system (the first built to WO5800 being 5800/1) must also apply to Prentices.
The Works Order numbers were, in fact, dug out of Blackburn’s records by me and passed on to AJJ for his book on the company. At no time did I suggest that were c/ns. It was a surprise to me that AJJ gave them as such, in spite of having made his own list of Blackburn fuselage numbers from actual observation:
B3/1A/PAC202 to 251 VS241-290
B3/1A/PAC252 to 270 VS316-334
? VS335-338
? VS352-362
plus six airframes?
B3/1A/PAC292 to 326 VS363-397
B3/1A/PAC327 to 332 VS409-414
Furthermore, while a contract number is given for Blackburn production, the Percivals are omitted:
VR189 et seq = Contract 5712
VR218 et seq = Contract 284
VS609 et seq = Contract 623
Page 282
Does not give the serials for cancelled Blackburn production: VS415-445, VS463-486. Of these, VS415-439 were to be covered by Works Order 5860; and VS440-445, 463-486 by WO5870.
Page 378, Abbreviations
ADW Armaments Disposal Wing
AHU Aircraft Holding Unit
A&AEE Aeroplane & Armament Experimental Establishment (during the [Hunting] Percival era; became Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment in 1992)
BDRT Battle Damage Repair Training
EFS Elementary Flying School
EFTS Elementary Flying Training School
RNAY Royal Naval Aircraft Yard
