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Post by mmandpgm on Jul 8, 2022 20:10:55 GMT
George
There doesn't appear to be a way of adding attachments to this forum but I transcribed this from the NAS San Diego War Diary for March 1943.
F4F type plane #FN193 Sub-Lieut. E Pike, RNVR, attached to VC-13 crashed on take-off and hit F4U-1 #02201, F4U-1 #02227, both F4U's attached to CASU-5. Slight injury to pilot. Extensive damage to both F4U's. FN #193 completely demolished.
Matt
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Post by mmandpgm on Jul 8, 2022 20:25:04 GMT
George
While looking through the rest of the San Diego March War Diary, I noted FN303 attached to CASU-5 ditched 27Mar43. I can transcribe if this is new information.
Matt
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Post by twocee on Jul 9, 2022 6:57:50 GMT
Matt,
That reference to FN303 is curious as in his book RCS shows it as having had an accident at Lewiston ME in October 1943 and flying from Anthorn to Inskip in November 1945. Salt water immersion following a ditching usually means the end!
The bigger question is why these Royal Navy Wildcats were at San Diego in March 1943 and the only thing I can think of is that there was some connection to HMS Victorious' transit from Norfolk to Hawaii around that time. Did she spend some time at San Diego for training? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of FAA operations can provide an answer?
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Post by mmandpgm on Jul 9, 2022 15:48:28 GMT
George
For the record here is the transcription of the FN303 event.
March 27, 1945
0935 – FN#303, pilot Sub-Lieut. C. G. Cullen, RNVR, attached to CASU-5 made forced landing in Spanish Bight south of main air station dock while on one-ball approach. No injury to pilot. Plane sank. Cause engine failure.
1515 – MARY ANN recovered FN#303 and delivered it to main dock in excellent condition.
Matt
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Post by mmandpgm on Jul 9, 2022 15:50:32 GMT
George
Sorry, mistyped the date. Should be 1943.
For the record here is the transcription of the FN303 event.
March 27, 1943
0935 – FN#303, pilot Sub-Lieut. C. G. Cullen, RNVR, attached to CASU-5 made forced landing in Spanish Bight south of main air station dock while on one-ball approach. No injury to pilot. Plane sank. Cause engine failure.
1515 – MARY ANN recovered FN#303 and delivered it to main dock in excellent condition.
Matt
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Post by twocee on Jul 9, 2022 18:02:10 GMT
Matt,
That's interesting about Cullen. He appears in five other Wildcat accidents mentioned in the book (not FN303).
The others were in 1944 and all when he was with 898 Sqdn. Assuming that he was also with 898 in 1943, and knowing that the squadron was assigned to Victorious for her trip to the South Pacific, it lends support to the idea that the RN Wildcats at San Diego in March 1943 were off Victorious. In his FAA Squadrons book RCS has 898 boarding the carrier on 3 February, presumably at Norfolk, and disembarking to Barber's Point on 6 March. Possibly Pike and Cullen were left behind at San Diego because they were not carrier qualified?
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Post by twocee on Jul 12, 2022 15:02:38 GMT
Now some comments on Hellcat accidents:
F6F-3 FN440 This aircraft was assigned to the ADU New York when being flown by Ens. J.W. Elder (USN) on 8 October 1943. Coming in to land he failed to ensure that the wheels were locked down and the left landing gear folded on contact with the ground.The belly tank caught fire, causing serious damage; possibly dbr.
F6F-5 JW722 On 1 August 1944 this aircraft took off from NAF Mineola for ferry to Norfolk. However, soon afterwards the engine lost power and Jamieson had to make a forced landing at Elmont, Long Island, during which the right wing hit a tree and was sheared off. The aircraft was dbr.
F6F-5 JW879 As discussed on AB-IX a few years ago, the crash occurred on taking off from RNAY Sydenham.
A couple of other points:
JV231 was returned to the US Navy in October 1945.
JW705 was not an F6F-6P.
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Post by twocee on Jul 14, 2022 7:22:52 GMT
Some amendments to the F6F-5 listings:
Page 268: JZ951 was BuNo 78386, not 78396
Page 269: It is highly likely that all aircraft in the JZ960 to 978 range were F6F-5s and not -5Ns.
JZ981 to 994 were 78468-78480 and 78502
KD103 to 117: add 78985 to the USN serial numbers
KD153 to 157: these were 79215, 221, 225, 231 and 235
Page 270: The three aircraft, KD158 to 160 were 79511 to 513
KE118 to 159 were 79514 to 79555
KE160 to 179: It is likely that only the first ten of these were F6F-5Ns, with BuNos 79706 to 79708, 79716 to 79718, 79736 to 79739. The second ten were 79740 to 79749.
KE180 to 214: these were 79750 to 784
(more to follow)
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Post by twocee on Jul 14, 2022 14:20:15 GMT
Continuing with the F6F-5s:
Page 270: KE215 to 233: these are thought to have comprised nine -5 and ten -5N. The -5s were KE220 to 228 (80245 to 80253), and the -5Ns, KE215 to 217 (80220 to 222)
KE218,219 (80229,230)
KE229 to 223 (80254 to 258)
80254, 80255 and 80257, all F6F-5Ns, were returned to the US Navy in September 1945.
KE234 to 265: these were 93652, 93663 to 677, 93683 to 697, 93701
It should be noted that 80220 onwards were accepted in June 1945 and so the delivery dates shown in the book must be incorrect.
Taking account of all the additions/corrections, the -5 Hellcat totals for the Royal Navy come out as 839 -5 and 91 -5N, giving 930 in all. Now Meekcoms, in his British Air Commission book, also has 930, but split as to 852 -5 and 78 -5N. He gives the final F6F-5N as KE219, which is not correct. The true answer may well lie somewhere in between 78 and 91, and so any further information would be welcome.
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Post by twocee on Jul 22, 2022 14:23:19 GMT
Now on to the Grumman Avenger:
Page 272: The final TBF-1 was BuNo 24236/FN895, leaving the last 54 aircraft (FN896 to 949) as TBF-1Cs. Their serial numbers were as follows:
24297 to 326, 367 to 386 and 437 to 440
Page 276: These 201 aircraft, JZ100 to JZ300 were all TBF-1Cs with serial numbers as follows:
24441 to 456, 517 to 520 47638 to 653, 704 to 723, 774 to 803, 834 to 849, 889 to 903, 939 to 966 47982 to 48009, 035 to 049, 063 to 076
Page 281: JZ301 to 526 comprised 60 TBM-1s (JZ301 to 360) and 166 TBM-1Cs. The serial numbers of the latter were as follows:
25076 to 105, 226 to 255, 336 to 355, 446 to 465, 556 to 575, 676 to 695, 16967 to 992
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Post by twocee on Jul 23, 2022 14:06:16 GMT
General Motors TBM-3s:
Page 288: The 86 aircraft with UK serials JZ635 to 720 comprised 32 TBM-3 and 54 TBM-3Es, accepted between September 1944 and April 1945. The first 32, all of the -3 variant, had US Navy BuNos as follows:
23257 to 264, 615 to 622 68328 to 335, 632 to 639
The remaining aircraft, all -3Es, had the BuNos from 69140 as shown in the book:
69140 to 153, 479 to 492 85738 to 750 86076 to 088
Page 289: In the entry for JZ667, the last part, "Retd. USN....." applies in fact to JZ683 and the reference to Coimbatore for that aircraft is probably in error.
RCS states that for the batch of TBM-3Es, JZ721 to 746, there is no evidence of delivery to the RN. Per contra, there is no indication that they were delivered to the US Navy either. However, 53510/JZ735 is shown as an LL return to the latter in October 1945, suggesting that it, and by implication the other aircraft, did indeed go to the Royal Navy in May and June.
As regards the final 50 TBM-3Es for the Royal Navy, KE430 to 479, 27 appear to have been retained by the US Navy, leaving the following 23 as RN aircraft;
91229 to 232, 234 to 236, 238, 240 to 242, 244 to 246, 253 to 255, 259, 260, 262, 264 to 266
Of these, 244, 259 and 264 were returned to the US Navy later in 1945.
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Post by twocee on Jul 24, 2022 18:36:08 GMT
A few final points on the Avenger:
Page 290: All the aircraft in the batch starting with KE480 were retained by the US Navy.
In the second column there is reference to an accident suffered by 06103 while serving with 832 Sqdn. The F4U pilot, 2Lt. T.S. Truehart of VMF222, was also killed in the MAC, which occurred 3 miles N of Barber's Point.
The last four aircraft in the list of 832 Sqdn loans were also returned to the US Navy in 1943.
The next item in the column, beginning "In addition, 3 elderly....." is redundant as the aircraft are already included in the first column miscellaneous transfers. although "86270" should read "68270".
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Post by twocee on Aug 1, 2022 18:31:40 GMT
I have come across a problem with two Grumman Avenger carrier landing accidents:
Page 272: For FN781 it shows an accident aboard Chaser on 28 May 1943, the pilot being S/Lt. K.M. Burrenston of 845 Sqdn.
Page 275: FN891 is shown as having had an accident aboard USS Charger on 27 May 1943, pilot Lt. J.M. Bunneston, no squadron given.
According to the records of Charger, the accident happened on the 27th, the aircraft was FN781 and the pilot was Bunneston.
In his Squadrons book RCS has 845 qualifying aboard Charger on 27 May, so was there a different accident the following day involving Chaser, FN891 and Burrenston? Where was Chaser in May 1943 and did it have an Avenger squadron come aboard?
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Post by twocee on Aug 23, 2022 7:36:49 GMT
On now to the Corsair:
In the book, at page 442, RCS begins with the Brewster F3A Corsair IIIs, 420, plus the odd 10 on page 464. These aircraft were accepted between January and June 1944 and so were not the first of the type to be received by the Royal Navy.
The first British Corsairs were the Vought F4U-1s, 465 of which were accepted between May 1943 and April 1944. The first 95 of these, to JT194, had the original cockpit with the so-called "greenhouse" or "birdcage" canopy. Later aircraft are dealt with in the book from page 452 under the heading "F4U-1A Corsair II", but it should be noted that "-1A" was not an official designation and so all 465 examples were Vought F4U-1s.
On page 459, in the entry for JT523, it should be noted that the proper Formosan place names are Shinchiku and Kiirun.
On page 460, the 140 aircraft from JT565 were Vought F4U-1Ds, accepted between May and July 1944.
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Post by twocee on Aug 24, 2022 7:27:04 GMT
The Goodyear aircraft:
On page 464, the first 94 FGs are shown as FG-1As, but as with F4U-1A this was not an official designation and these aircraft were FG-1s. On page 466 the 306 aircraft listed as FG-1Ds were also FG-1s. In total, then, the Fleet Air Arm received 405 FG-1s, 94+306+10 (page 469), less KD260-264 which were retained by Goodyear. These were accepted between July and October 1944.
The FG-1Ds began with KD571 (Page 470) and the 422 aircraft to KD992 were accepted between October 1944 and April 1945.
On page 475, the final BuNo shown in the KD868 to 992 panel should be 88428, not 88478.
On page 476, the final batch of FG-1Ds is shown as KD993 to KE117, 25 aircraft. Of these, it seems that only 12 went to the Fleet Air Arm and KE103-109, KE111-115, and KE117 were retained by the US Navy.
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