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Post by andym on May 9, 2020 17:16:45 GMT
Firstly thanks to Doug Revell for producing a most valuable reference work. A couple of notes to the Hawker section:
G-9-397
This is of course the ex Embraer aircraft PP-XHH, now flying in the UK as "XE688", and which has been the subject of much debate. It's correct c/n is HABL003031
G-9-486/493
These of course went to Zimbabwe, not Zambia
Andy
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bernm
Full Member
Posts: 59
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Post by bernm on May 11, 2020 13:48:15 GMT
UNDER B CONDITIONS UPDATES/CORRECTIONS
Further to Andy's comments, I completely support his compliments to Doug Revell on producing the long-awaited follow-up to his 1978 original, which is now dwarfed on my Bookshelf by the latest. Nonetheless there a few immediate observations that I would like to make, mostly concerning gyros and microlights.
Page 196 VINTEN G-55-2 was NEVER G-BKLZ As I have explained previously in DIGEST for 2001 and later further expanded in 2006, the true situation as established by the late great Ken Wallis (not Wallace as unforgiveably appears in the text due to a lack of proofreading at the later stages of production - through no fault of Doug Revell) from his log books is best explained by repeating what he and I originally wrote:
Wallis-built for Vinten c/n UMA-01 G-BKLZ Regd 08.12.82 as a Vinten Wallis WA-116Mc to W.Vinten Ltd., Bury St Edmunds. Powered by McCulloch 4318A. Flown at Reymerston Hall 20.12.82. Trialled as a radio-controlled unmanned aircraft for military use. Flown (by Ken Wallis) at Reymerston Hall 09.02.83 to test the "fly-by-wire" system, but engine cut-out on take-off. Fuel pump rebuilt and reflown 10.02.83 but Ken Wallis deemed the remote controls to have insufficient back-stick authority and recommended further manned testing prior to fully adopting the remote flying system. However, Vinten decided to proceed with unmanned flying and, after several attempts that damaged the rotor-blades as they struck the ground when angled too far back, finally achieved slightly better results, but only when remotely flown by a very competent radio-controlled model flyer. Nonetheless Vinten decided to give a demonstration to a military gathering in Egypt and it was shipped out accordingly. However, it crashed dramatically in front of the assembled group. [NB: This is NOT the aircraft marked as G-55-2 at Hermeskeil, Germany.]
Vinten-built V-122 Libelle (122 designation based on WA.122/RR G-BGGW demonstrations) Two built against German Army Contract and (abortive) trials carried out at Shipdham in 01.86. G-55-2 flown by Ken Wallis on 06.01.86 fitted with own rotor blades, originally manufactured by Miles Aircraft in 11.61 and managed to just fly in -6 degrees. Re-fitted with Vinten-built blades and, solo with about 3 gallons of fuel aboard, only just managed to lift-off. Even at full throttle it failed to climb away and proved unstable. These abortive attempts by Ken Wallis were performed on 11.01.86. It survives and is exhibited on loan to Flugausstellung L & P Junior Museum - with Vinten B Conditions marks G-55-2 at Hermeskeil, Germany. (Apparently, references to "VJ-22 Autogyro" is a misreading of V-122). The other trials aircraft. G-55-1, has also survived and exhibited as a "Venom", at a very small military museum in Germany (noted 2004). The location was at the Ehrenbreitstein, a military fortress on the east bank of the Rhine near Koblenz
Page 201 CYCLONE AIR SPORTS The correct presentation of the c/ns for G-69-51/G-CTCT & G-69-52/G-CBAI is 00-04-04-94 & 01-02-04-07 respectively.
Page 206/7 P&M AVIATION Add: G-93-1 Ace Aviation Magic/Laser First appeared in public at Popham Microlight Trade Fair 05.07 with B Conditions marks in felt-tip on the instrument panel. At this stage the trike (c/n unknown) with a blue & yellow seat fabric was powered by a Solo 35 engine and with the sailwing G-CENP (AA00126). (As I initially first reported on Page 966/ABN July 2007). After being damaged, this trike was replaced c06.09 with another (MT0115) powered by a Rotax 447, but with the original sailwing. My Popham photo attached.
The c/n of P&M Hyper G-93-11 was 8743 and became G-CKHY 16.05.17
Page 207 ROTORSPORT The first use of G-94-1 and exhibited at PFA Rally 08.06 was the airframe that became G-CDZZ (Rotorsport c/n RSUK/MT-03/002). The second use was on AutoGyro MT-03 G-CEHM (Rotorsport c/n RSUK/MT-03/004) prior to 10.06 The third known use was on the Cavalon at Popham 05.19 as shown.
Page 207 THE LIGHT AIRCRAFT COMPANY LTD Sherwood Scout G-A2-001 first appeared at the Popham Microlight Trade Fair in April 2017 and reappeared at the 2018 event, becoming G-CLAK on 20.06.18 Attachments:
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Post by andym on May 12, 2020 15:24:25 GMT
One more note from me, regarding the photo of Wasp G-17-4 on page 138. The caption states it was 84, which is supported by the text. But the photo clearly shows that the aircraft wears serial 87 on the nose... Andy
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Post by murgyc46 on Jun 3, 2020 16:42:30 GMT
Thanks to all involved in getting this excellant new edition of the classic MAS booklet into print - it has definitely grown up! Ordered at the weekend and arrived expertly packaged and oozing quality today.
One correction/update regarding the Edgley Optica if I may:-
pg 197 There is a photograph credited to Mike Stroud in the AB Digest Summer 2002 magazine page 71 of an Optica wearing G56006, the book quotes G-56-006 as allocated to EA7/006 but no usage is mentioned. I am checking with ex-employees of Edgley but I understand it was used in late 1985/early 1986 partly in connection with testing modifications after the loss of G-KATY (EA7/004).
Apart from the above photograph I am not aware of any other Opticas wearing their allocated B-condition marks, the book quotes EA7/001 using G-56-001, the year is said to be 1978, this would have been a whole year before its first flight on the 14th December 1979 at Cranfield - I have never seen photographic proof of it being worn - can anyone help?
Now onto some comments regarding the fates of some of the breed:-
EA7/001 is mentioned as scrapped by FLS in 1985, whilst it had certainly been dismantled there were major components including the wings and parts of the fuselage still stored at Old Sarum until at least 1990.
EA7/010 G-BMPF is recorded as stored, this aircraft was written off following an accident in Spain - again I have sought precise details from former Edgley staff.
EA7/017 G-BMPM was last reported in use in a childrens playground in Dubai possibly as long ago as 2010 - does anybody have any further information? Looking at Google Earth has not proved fruitful.
EA7/018 Between the identities of G-BMPN and VH-BMC this aircraft had intended to be registered as VH-OPT, this was not taken up.
kind regards
Brian Matthews AB21637
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Post by richardcawsey on Nov 3, 2020 10:06:44 GMT
K14 Avro 639 Cabin Cadet (639) .33; G-ACGA 12.4.33 O1 presumed to be the Vildebeest that crashed at Farnborough 13.6.33 P7 Westland P.V.7 Crashed, Campsea Ashe, Suffolk 21.8.34 R-5 Bulldog IIIA (7560) Crashed, Norton Heath, Essex 4.1.33 R-10 Bristol 133 (7776) Crashed, Longwell Green, Glos. 6.3.35 X2 Merganser (Au.1) FF 9.5.47 G-5-13 Chipmunk T.20 (C1/0299) .51 G-5-15 Chipmunk T.20 (C1/0292) .51 G-7-1 Meteor Mk.8 GAF (G5/1210) 7.51 ex G-AMCJ; mod to two-seater G-ANSO .54 G-7-143 T67C-3 (2100) .90; to PH-SGH 3.91 G-7-144 T67C-3 (2101) .90; to PH-SGI 3.91; G-BYYG 11.99 G-7-161 T67M260 Firefly (2109) .93; to G-BVAK 7.93; N7020D 1.94 G-7-176 T67M200 Firefly (2235) .96; to Belize Defence Force BDF 04 G-7-177 T67M260 Firefly (2129) .96 ex N3022C; to N3022C 7.96 G-9-375 Hunter F.4; T.68 Swiss J-4204 G-9-381 Hunter Swiss J-4135 G-9-486 to 493 all Hawk Mk60 for Zimbabwe G-12-5 Westland/Saunders-Roe SRN.2 Hovercraft (SR-N2-001) 21.12.61; broken up G-15-75 Spitfire Tr.9 (photo in Aeroplane Monthly Aug. 2007) G-17-1 S.51 (WA/H/20) Was for R Thai AF G-17-6 Wessex HAS.3 (WA108) Delete G-17-9 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (019) 7.86 G-17-10 Lynx (249) Also tested as ZE388 4.87-5.87 before delivery to Denmark as Mk90 S-249 22.5.87. Any evidence for ZE803? G-17-10 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (023) 7.86 G-17-10 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (017) 8.87 G-17-11 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (024) 9.86 G-17-12 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (026) 10.86 G-17-13 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (025) 11.86 G-17-14 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (028) 12.86 G-17-15 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (027) 1.87 G-17-16 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (029) 2.87 G-17-17 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (030) 3.87 G-17-18 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (031) 4.87 G-17-19 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (032) 5.87 G-17-20 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (033) 6.87 G-17-21 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (034) 7.87 G-17-22 Westland 30 Srs.300 (020) FF 5.2.86; The Helicopter Museum, Weston-super-Mare since 1991 G-17-23 Westland 30 Srs.100-60 (035) 8.87 G-17-24 Lynx 3 (310/001P) 6.84; to ZE477 G-17-33 Sea King 42B (WA972) Delete. First flown as ZG601 [Incidentally, the next aircraft in the sequence, ZG602, has been quoted as being renumbered as Indian Navy IN514 as a replacement for ZF527 which was supposedly to have been IN514 but crashed before delivery. In fact ZG602 was marked as IN514 before the loss of ZF527.] G-17-70 WS 70 (00870) To ZG468 5.87 G-26-3 Slingsby T.26 Kite 2 (not Kite 1A) .49 G-27-471/500/510/513 should have G-9- prefix? G-31 2 history blank but given in photo caption
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Post by andym on Dec 4, 2020 19:16:40 GMT
One addition to the McAlpine Helicopters entry. BAR MR210/99 reports that Jamaican AS355N JDFH-27 used G-79-02
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 5, 2020 13:03:17 GMT
One more note from me, regarding the photo of Wasp G-17-4 on page 138. The caption states it was 84, which is supported by the text. But the photo clearly shows that the aircraft wears serial 87 on the nose... Andy A very interesting observation Andy Going through the SAAF Wasps there are three aircraft which are "missing" in the Book Neither SA Navy 87, 89 nor 90 appears to have any G-17 application given. Thanks to Andy's keen eyes we can now see that at least s/n 87 received a test registration G-17-4 (which I am pretty certain should be read as an additional one) That leads me to believe the other missing two also carried such registrations, but which ones? So it goes when you re-use markings over and over again..... Also thanks to Richard for his massive update of the book!
Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Apr 16, 2021 10:31:40 GMT
Another update concerns the 15 Gloster Gladiators built in England for the Belgian Air Force. Looking at the excellent site of Daniel Brackx: www.belgian-wings.be/gloster-gladiatorhe mentions that "Gloster built aircraft received the Class B registrations G5-1 to G5-15, which before delivery to Belgium were painted on the fuselages of the Gladiators." He has since provided me with a photo showing a formation flight of five aircraft, marked G5-10 to G5-14 inclusive. I can't find these in the book.
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Post by Admin on Apr 16, 2021 11:53:51 GMT
Andy
I wonder if these were really B conditions markings, or rather some form of mis-interpretation by Gloster of the intended Belgian serials? The only known pre-war B condition marking use by Gloster was in a different format, just G.37, a very early "out-of-sequence" marking on the SS37 Gladiator prototype.
Steve M
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Post by andym on Apr 16, 2021 16:56:49 GMT
Steve, I suppose that might be possible, but the Belgian serials were G-17 to G-31. Andy
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Post by dougrevell on Apr 23, 2021 18:55:35 GMT
See Under B Conditions, page x, third column, last paragraph. I believe these are possibly line numbers.
Doug.
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bernm
Full Member
Posts: 59
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Post by bernm on Apr 30, 2021 16:06:49 GMT
With the arrival on AFORS of Aviatika MAI-890 EI-FEU from Paul O.Donnell at Kilrush, I did a quick check of our B Conditions masterpiece to check what we said under G-51-890-69, as it was so marked when undergoing Permit assessment with PBN at Bembridge. Apologies to Doug, if I have missed the entry and I have also checked the updates on the Forum to no avail.
In summary, therefore, the airframe was No 69 and was the subject of AAN No: 24036 dated 10.03.93 when PBN applied for the issue of a Permit to Fly (AAN eventually Cld 20.12.010). First flew 06.07.93 flown by John Ayres. It was still hangared at Bembridge when Pete Bish photographed it in 1997. The current seller states that they bought it from PBN with just 20 Hrs logged. After years in dry storage, a new Blue-Top Rotax 582 c/w electric start & oil injection was fitted, stunning paint, and put on the Irish register as EI-FEU (10.04.15) as a type A permit craft. Currently for sale with very low hours TT just 55. I see that Allan Wright was seeking an update on its status last year on the B-N Historians webpages, so here it is !.
Since the B Conditions thread is on the Forum, I have repeated this there in order to keep the data together.
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Post by richardcawsey on Jun 16, 2021 19:08:45 GMT
G-39-2 Folland Fo 140 Gnat (FL1), control lost and crashed 31.7.56 at Snoddington Manor Farm, near Tidworth, Wiltshire during a high-speed test flight. Folland chief test pilot Sqn Ldr E A Tennant ejected.
Did not become XK724 which was FL2 and first flew 26.5.56.
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Post by andym on Aug 16, 2021 19:19:10 GMT
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Post by andym on Sept 3, 2021 18:36:23 GMT
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