Post by Stig Jarlevik on Aug 20, 2021 21:36:07 GMT
Mediterranean Air War Vol 1 (Shores et all) claims these two losses occurred on 23 Dec 1941! I don't know the reason for that, but possibly that is the only day the Germans claimed two Beaufighters shot down. MAW provides no ID for the two aircraft, but one (T4702) is listed as lost on 16 Dec 1941 (probably as per Halley's list) and without any further comment.
Chris Shores is not on TOCH, but Russell Guest is, so perhaps a direct question to him may lead to an answer.
MAW Vol 1 has no listed Beaufighter losses either on Dec 25th or 26th. Both seemingly "quiet" days....no German corresponding claims either.
It is not impossible the ORB are not 100% in order here.
The ORB (Air 27/1577) states the losses to be on 23/12/41. The copy to which I have access is one of the occasional pages across the ORBs which are difficult to read. However the next entry is clearly dated 24/12/41.
Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 7, 2021 19:07:59 GMT
This one is possibly a problem Andy
Checking some of my second hand references they all say 213 Sq Franks - RAF Fighter Command losses Vol 1: 213 Sq V6667 'P' shot down off Selsey Bill 16.00H The Battle over Britain then and now: same but adds by Bf 110 and Hurricane coded AK-P Wynn - Men of the Battle of Britain: Antoni Wojcicki born Aug 1st 1914 joined 213 Sq at Exeter on 19 Aug 1940, followed by the above
Everyone else claims A Cebrzynski was in V6665 that day which is listed as still being with 303 Sq on the 11th
I can only assume my sources has checked both the aircraft record cards and the valid ORB.
Perhaps a mistake this time by whoever wrote the page at N.A.?
Stig, Nope, I don't think so. The go to book is "303 (Polish) Squadron Battle of Britain Diary" by Richard King (2010). It's a 325 page book covering the period from August to October 1940, and I have to say it is one of the best squadron history books I have ever read (and I have read a lot). Very readable, in depth, and well-researched. The individual aircraft are well-covered. Page 136 notes (in the diary entry for 7 September 1940): "Following their recent losses, the squadron was now bolstered by the arrival of five replacement Hurricanes: P3089, P3120, P3939, V6665, V6667" Pages 155-158 deal with the loss of Cebrzynski, and Pages 167-168 discuss the aircraft he was flying. It says: "The RAF Air Movement Cards for V6667 and V7242 quote both as combat write-offs 11 September whilst V6665's card has simply been annotated as missing this date. Both the ORB and the independently produced engineering weekly maintenance reports continued to quote V6665 on strength until late September, unlike V6667 which has no entries past 11 September.
I have just downloaded the two relevant 213 Sqn documents: AIR 27/1315/21 summary of events September 1940 AIR 27/1315/22 record of events September 1940 This confirms the loss of two Hurricanes on 11 September: A: Flt Lt Sing P: Sgt Wojcicki However, no serials are listed for these aircraft, so I am still a little unclear as to how this aircraft became associated with 213 Sqn. Andy
Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 8, 2021 14:03:28 GMT
Yes something is very much wrong here. I don't have the 303 Sq book you mention (I simply have no space for such detailed RAF unit books) I have done some further reading in other books and there is actually a "surprise" Hurricane entering the picture W6667 It is listed in our relevant RAF aircraft histories as also with 213Sq and shot down 11 Sep off Selsey Bill (no pilot name off course)
To me this sounds like the culprit here and a good reason why V6667 has also been entered as belonging to 213Sq It seems now quite certain to me that V6667 never left 303 Sq and was also shot down on 11 Sep
Perhaps speculative but what do you think about the following scenario? V6667 303Sq RF-K F/O Arsen Cebryzynski W6667 213Sq AK-P Sgt Antoni Wojcicki
What an odd co-incidence....
As always Andy, hats off for another interesting topic!!
Stig, Yes, that is correct, AIR81/3237 confirms the serial: discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16472652 The other 213 Sqn loss (Flt Lt Sing) was P3980/AK-A, as per AIR81/3240: discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16472655 To be fair to our predecessors, they did not have instant access to the records to cross-check like we do today... That said, I am very grateful to the likes of Richard King for producing such detailed books, combining ORBs, pilots' log books, engineering records etc etc to arrive at their conclusions. Andy
Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 14, 2021 12:40:26 GMT
I assume you are referring to our T1000 - T9999 serial booklet? If so you have a later copy than I, mine is from 1981 All mine is saying is the SOC date, nothing else. What does your booklet say about the other Beau lost near Vågsöy that day, ie T4765? Again my copy only gives the same SOC date.