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Post by andym on Sept 10, 2023 17:17:17 GMT
The Air Historical Branch and the RAF Museum will have them. I was kindly passed scans of a lot of them on a (rather large) hard drive some time ago.
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 10, 2023 20:21:11 GMT
Lucky You Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Sept 11, 2023 11:24:29 GMT
Whirlwind P7090 was actually lost on the evening of 17 April 1943 (multiple sources)
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 11, 2023 12:43:11 GMT
Just out of curiosity (since it was a night mission) how is it calculated the aircraft went down before midnight?
B Rgds Stig
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Post by andym on Sept 11, 2023 15:02:00 GMT
Stig, That is a fair point. Looking at the other aircraft on the same mission, timings were: 2244/2320 (returned early, engine trouble) 2251/0015 2256/0025 2259/2347 (returned with exactor trouble) 2304/0015 2315/0035 P7090 departed at 2300. Given that it was never heard from again (some sources say it was lost in the target area) I suspect it was indeed lost in the first hour, but there is no absolute proof of that, so 17/18 April it is. Not 19 April as given in the books though. Andy
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Post by andym on Sept 13, 2023 13:52:58 GMT
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Post by andym on Sept 13, 2023 14:47:02 GMT
The entry in the early P-serials book for Whirlwind P7059 is correct, ie 263 Sqn, DBR after engine caught fire near Warmwell 22.5.43, SOC - this is confirmed by the AM78. It was not abandoned off Querqueville as stated in the later edition.
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 13, 2023 15:09:24 GMT
Sorry about my late reply Andy (never got the usual pre-alert to my system) P7090: I agree we should list it as 17/18 April (19th is out!) P6985: From where did you get the additional info regarding Predannack (lovely name!)? National Archives just mentions lost on Ops I agree the aircraft most likely got back since the pilot is listed as wounded P7059: From the book by Bingham it was a little of both actually. Lee-White was hit by AA-fire and radioed back he was bailing out over Queiqueville, but the slipstream abated the fire and he struggled back to Warmwell where he made a safe landing, but the aircraft was too badly damaged, both by the AA-fire and engine fire that it was SOC Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Sept 13, 2023 15:32:38 GMT
Stig, Regarding P6985 it is mentioned here online: surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/commonwealth_kitchener.htmbut in print there is a recall interview by the pilot P/O Herbert Kitchener on pages 35 and 36 of "The Whirlwind Years" (Robert Bowater, Fonthill, 2013), in which he clearly states Predannack. Andy
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Sept 13, 2023 17:02:27 GMT
Thanks Andy
Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 14, 2023 10:30:46 GMT
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Dec 14, 2023 11:31:22 GMT
It seems the date 6 and 7 June 1940 are a bigger mess than I initially thought. If Simon Parry and Peter Cornwell's researches are to be believed P2905 was lost the day after, ie 7 June 1940 (Halley seems to have reversed his digits as 6.7.40 instead of 7.6.40) Also don't forget P2885 which is listed as 5 June in our booklet but was actually lost on the 6th (as noted by you on TOCH) Cheers Stig
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Post by andym on Dec 23, 2023 8:33:21 GMT
Wellington P9277 is shown as: 99/OADF/15 OTU/ME Ditched on ferry flight, 8.7.41
This was actually the strike date. As per "Bomber Losses in the Mediterranean and Middle East, Vol 1 1939 - 1942", the aircraft ditched on 27.6.41 while en-route Luqa-Egypt.
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Post by andym on Jan 5, 2024 2:43:44 GMT
Spitfire P9399 was lost on an operational sortie on 10.7.40, not while training on 1.6.40 as listed. See the ever-useful RAF Commands forum: www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?28301-Supermarine-Spitfire-anomalies&p=188128#post188128for my deliberations, plus corroboration from others from the pilot's combat report. In simple terms, in the ORBs (AIR/27/640 series), I found that: P9399 first appears on 27/5/40, when flown from Rochford to Hornchurch by P/O Eley (up 6.30, down 6.45). This is consistent with it having been delivered on 26/5/40, as noted by airhistory. P9399 appears on operations on the 27th, and then it is flown Rochford to Leconfield with the rest of the squadron on 28/5/40 by P/O Measures. P/O Cobden flew it at Leconfield on 30/5/40. On 1/6/40 it flew four times at Leconfield, and again on 2/6, 3/6, 4/6 (three times, once by P/O Cobden), 5/6 (twice), before being flown by P/O Cobden from Leconfield to Rochford on 6/6/40 It was flown consistently for the rest of the month (the sqn moved to Hornchurch of 25/6/40), many times by P/O Cobden, but also by Sailor Malan (it force-landed at Manston on 27/6, but returned the next day, and was air-tested on 29/6). Moving into July it was again flown almost every day, nearly always by Cobden (sometimes twice a day). On 10/7 P/O Cobden flew it 0655/0740, 0900/0945 (landed Manston), 1035/1110, and finally a fourth flight 1235/1400 where it states "Interception" and "Force landed through enemy action". It does not give a location. This is the last entry for P9399. The next day Cobden starts flying other aircraft, mainly N3091.
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Post by Stig Jarlevik on Jan 6, 2024 10:14:20 GMT
That's interesting Andy
Simon Perry in BoB Vol 1 says it was P9398, and so does my issue of BoB Then and Now. Both authors/compiler then goes on to say that P9398 was lost on 31 July 1940
Perhaps even more interesting is that Francis Mason in his exceptional book (at the time) actually says P9399
Since P9399 was classified as a Cat 2 and became an Instructional airframe (2137M) it wasn't classified as total loss.
Conclusion is that both Perry and Ramsey are wrong and that you (and Mason) are correct!
Cheers Stig
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